Banshee

[Flare]

Banshee.png

Profile and Art Copyright Kenkou Cross @ http://kurobine.sakura.ne.jp/
Translated Profile Commissioned by Monster Girl Redux
Do not redistribute, modify, or re-host without the expressed written consent of Kenkou Cross.


Japanese Profile:

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banshee.jpg

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344_banshee_L.jpg

[Kaijin]

European lore based monstergirl? In this setting? The perfect recipe for disaster is coming again... and for Christmas no less.
I expect literally nothing good out of this one... As I've seen dozens and dozens of times how examples like this one have been reduced to nothing but a mockery in this setting.

Oh well... I'll wait until the translated version to see how bad this one will turn out to be.

[Pokemonaces]

Huh...welp a very dark and dreary design in a good way. She looks interesting appearance wise, gotta wait for the good ole translation to get a fukl scale of what she's like though

[SIERRA-116]

Fast and low!

[Raet]

Hmm, design is great I suppose, none of her symbols are visible though. Also a banshee is also known as a washer woman

[Flare]

Really? I've never heard of that...

[dragonstryke58]

Translated profile up on top post!

[Kaijin]

A Celtic lore entity serving under the Scandinavian/Norse goddess of the underworld...
(I don't know what is more gear grinding...this or the whole Scáthach-Skadi thingy thrown at random because "why the heck not?" in FKO)

Dangit...Japan...Dangit...

Celtic mytholgy ≠ Scandinavian/Norse Mythology
Great Britain (and Ireland) ≠ Scandinavia (and Finland)

Is is really that hard to understand?

If we can tell the diference between Sendai (the river), Sendai (the city) and Sendai (the prefecture)... HOW COME YOU'RE UNABLE TO TELL THE FRIGGIN' DIFFERENCE BETWEEN IRELAND AND ICELAND?
__________

Okay... Putting aside that Kenkou knows absolutely nothing about Europe nor their mythologies, doesn't have a single smidge of respect for them and has never bothered to check the source material... Let's move to the profile itself.
Boy... I knew it was gonna be bad, and it definitely didn't disappoint my "expectations".

The first thing to notice is... that she's broken... one of the most broken entries on the encyclopedia on that regard actually (on par with entries like Pharaoh, Ice Queen or Al-Apsarah hands down).
To the point that a single tear of hers is enough to turn you into lust incarnate.

As for her modus operandi/approach is exactly the same as the Sea Bishop's basically.
In Sea Bishop's case I can fully understand why... since it's pretty much a life or death situation , it's either her doing her deed or...

[youtube]9Yw5jkAHgME[/youtube]
...this happens

But in Banshee's case I can't really justify it, she just arrives way too late to save him and forces a transformation on him (or rather what's left of him by that point) because... of yes.
In some cases I can understand it... like in an accident, someone left to die or a soldier dying on a battlefield...
...but in cases like people suffering from illness for months, years... maybe even most of their lives...That's something I can't understand nor accept.
After an endless suffering one of these is more than ready and willing to take that eternal relief just to get a romp or two out of you? It just feels incredibly wrong.

She's not just bad... she's revoltingly bad.

Worst succbus entry, worst undead entry (even worse than Vampire's... and those who know me can definitely tell how much I hated Kenkou's poor attempt at portraying said species) and one of the worst entries in the whole encyclopaedia.

.P.S.: On the bright side... Nice design.

[Perentie]

I still think its only fair to offer a rebuttal, especially given how as far as I can tell KC's banshee is a pretty decent adaptation of the banshee of mythology.

That is, from what I know these are the main agreed upon/common aspects (like many such beings they vary a lot in some aspects in different accounts, such as their looks and height) of the banshee of mythology:

1. A female humanoid spirit whose wailing foretells the imminent death of someone, generally a loved one/family member, or coincides with said death.
2. They were fairly benevolent, sometimes warning people who were about to enter situations where death was likely. They did not cause death themselves and were unable to outright prevent it.

That all applies pretty well to KC's banshee, either in their current state or what they were before Hel took them on as servants.

A Celtic lore entity serving under the Scandinavian/Norse goddess of the underworld...
(I don't know what is more gear grinding...this or the whole Scáthach-Skadi thingy thrown at random because "why the heck not?" in FKO)

Dangit...Japan...Dangit...

Celtic mytholgy ≠ Scandinavian/Norse Mythology
Great Britain (and Ireland) ≠ Scandinavia (and Finland)

Is is really that hard to understand?

If we can tell the diference between Sendai (the river), Sendai (the city) and Sendai (the prefecture)... HOW COME YOU'RE UNABLE TO TELL THE FRIGGIN' DIFFERENCE BETWEEN IRELAND AND ICELAND?

I'm not really clear on why this is such an issue when MGE is a world where the deities and creatures of several different mythologies coexist and interact. Indeed, there is evidence that in the MGE some of the gods are even known by different names/identities in different regions (like its speculated in MGE volume 2 that the sea deity Wadatsumi worshiped in Zipangu is the same being as Poseidon). Or for another comparison, how Bastet doesn't care what mythology cat monsters come from, so why would Hel be unable to associate with or come to a special agreement with banshees?

Heck, its even outright noted the banshee didn't originally have anything to do with Hel. She took them in comparatively recently. KC's version is not near on the level of divergence from, say, Eros being the one who churned the ocean of milk to create amrita instead of Hindu devas and asuras.

Okay... Putting aside that Kenkou knows absolutely nothing about Europe nor their mythologies, doesn't have a single smidge of respect for them and has never bothered to check the source material... Let's move to the profile itself.

Reading up on his enty and patreon entries its always seemed to me that KC actually knows more about a given creature's mythic origins than one might expect. Of course he freely ignores a lot if it suits him. But I regardless fail to see how his treatment of the banshee shows a lack of respect when, as noted above, he adapted them rather directly.

The first thing to notice is... that she's broken... one of the most broken entries on the encyclopedia on that regard actually (on par with entries like Pharaoh, Ice Queen or Al-Apsarah hands down).
To the point that a single tear of hers is enough to turn you into lust incarnate.

I'm not sure how you got such an extreme impression. Her crying causes lust, a ton of MGE monsters have that sort of voice-based ability (siren, lamia, mermaid), and indeed in the banshee's case its only so effective when the man has just risen into undeath and his thoughts are still unsettled. After that it and their tears are just a rather standard lust enhancer.

But in Banshee's case I can't really justify it, she just arrives way too late to save him and forces a transformation on him (or rather what's left of him by that point) because... of yes.
In some cases I can understand it... like in an accident, someone left to die or a soldier dying on a battlefield...
...but in cases like people suffering from illness for months, years... maybe even most of their lives...That's something I can't understand nor accept.
After an endless suffering one of these is more than ready and willing to take that eternal relief just to get a romp or two out of you? It just feels incredibly wrong.

They specifically can only sense it when people are going to die soon, and their voices give comfort. Further, if they have sex with you then you're their husband for life, its not a romp or two (to maintain the life of an undead incubus requires a life long commitment) nor do they revive the man for the sake of sex. The whole point of them serving Hel is to be able to give people relief as they die and welcome them into eternal life as an undead, to be able to do something about death and suffering when before they were unable to.

And people don't get eternal relief from standard death in the MGE. Apparently there is some form of reincarnation for souls, at least usually. We're still lacking in details on what happens after normal death but the "soul marriage" spell implies that the standard course is for the soul to be reincarnated, with at least the potential for links to the former life to remain. There are at least some special reincarnations too, like the special humans Eros reincarnates as houris, complete with memories of their past life.

On the other hand eternal life in the physical world as an undead seems to be one form of "afterlife" KC has built up as an option in the setting (and Hel, by changing how the undead work, is the main one responsible for it being possible), and a lot is explained in World Guide 3 regarding how great a life it is, basically superior to regular life in every way (food even tastes better). Understanding this is clearly important to understanding the banshee, given KC posted a couple pages from the necromancy section of World Guide 3 when he posted the banshee's profile.

As for people suffering from chronic illnesses, there is a whole school of magic, white magic/pharmaomancy (invented by monsters), devoted to helping with that, be it relief or curing. MGE banshees are all about attending to and comforting people who they sense are going to die, not people who can be saved or helped in other ways.

Post edited by Dragonstryke

[Raet]

Really? I've never heard of that...

It's true, I read multiple sources when I was writing my own profile earlier this year.

Whatever her origins, the banshee chiefly appears in one of three guises: a young woman, a stately matron or a raddled old hag. These represent the triple aspects of the Celtic goddess of war and death, namely Badhbh, Macha and Mor-Rioghain.)The Banshee She usually wears either a grey, hooded cloak or the winding sheet or grave robe of the unshriven dead. She may also appear as a washer-woman, and is seen apparently washing the blood stained clothes of those who are about to die. In this guise she is known as the bean-nighe (washing woman).

For mine I went for the young woman, but there are other descriptions

dressed in white or grey with long silver hair, and occasionally took the form of a crow, stoat, hare or weasel – typical animals associated with witchcraft in Ireland.

I have noticed this is missing and also I must note that her appearance fits one of her descriptions

A beautiful woman wearing a shroud
A pale woman in a white dress with long red hair
A woman with a long silver dress and silver hair
A headless woman carrying a bowl of blood that is naked from the waist up
An old woman with frightening red eyes, a green dress and long white hair
An old woman with a veil covering her face, dressed all in black with long grey hair

another missing fact

Not all Banshees are hate-filled creatures; there are some that had strong ties to their families in life and continued to watch over them in death. When they manifest themselves, these Banshees appear as beautiful enchanting women that sing a sorrowful, haunting song which is filled with concern and love for their families. This song can be heard a few days before the death of a family member and in most cases the song can only be heard by the person for whom it is intended.

[Flare]

Ah, now I see where you're coming from, since I know the term as "A woman who handles the household's laundry" from the olden days, and from the myth of the Midnight Washerwomen.

[Blake81]

Celtic mytholgy ≠ Scandinavian/Norse Mythology

Eyup! Still can't quite wrap my mind around why so many Japanese authors mix up the same places in Europe; can't even blame KC for this one, as it seems a generalized thing.

And pity about this one; she's got nice hips, but that seems to be all about it...

[Kaijin]

I can't blame Kenkou directly on that one (I can blame him on not doing enough research though) since it's a misconception vastly spread on Japanese media...

But you read the professor though: If it's Kenkou-dono doing it... then it's a strike of genius, makes perfect sense and thinking otherwise is being dead wrong.
Moving on...^^

[Perentie]

I don't recall claiming it was genius, I just don't see what the argument is on why its an issue, especially when one considers this is a setting where mythologies have been mixed into one world all along. As far as I can tell there is zero indication that Celtic = Scandinavian is in play here, any more than there is a claim that Eros is a Hindu deity. Those things don't even exist in the MGE after all for one thing, so its hard to see how that scenario could be in play.

Now if the Making Of comes out and KC gives inaccurate info on the source of the banshee in mythology, then that's another issue entirely. As it is all we have is him giving his version of Hel some servants from a mythology in a different part of the world.

And pity about this one; she's got nice hips, but that seems to be all about it...

She's certainly not a favorite of mine myself (a number of the undead types aren't), but what do you find to be lacking/pitiable?

[Raet]

What Kaijin is getting at is that the banshee works for Hel, Hel is Norse, not in any way associated with a banshee. If he wanted to make her work for a goddess, she should work for Morrigan, the most obvious goddess of death associated with Celtic legends. She even has a famous succubus, Morrigan Aeinsland in video game culture

[Perentie]

What Kaijin is getting at is that the banshee works for Hel, Hel is Norse, not in any way associated with a banshee. If he wanted to make her work for a goddess, she should work for Morrigan, the most obvious goddess of death associated with Celtic legends. She even has a famous succubus, Morrigan Aeinsland in video game culture

I get that much. But the trouble there would be that he's already established Hel as the goddess of life and death in his setting, much as he's made Poseidon the main ocean deity. Presumably the furthest he could go without contradicting/complicating that would be to have Morrigan be another name Hel is known as, much as he implies the deity the umi-osho serve actually being Poseidon but in the Zipangu region known by another name (though I suppose he could give Morrigan some kind of supportive/additional role). Plus, part of the fun of fantasy settings is having the freedom to create relationships between mythical characters/races that didn't exist in the original mythology. Not saying you can't go too far with it, I just don't see how this is a case of going too far.

Though I'll note again that KC's banshees also had no association with Hel to begin with, only being recruited by her in more recent times. Should Hel be restricted to only taking in races associated with her in the original mythology, when she has a whole world of death-associated beings out there?

[Kaijin]

While it's nice to see that there's actually people actually getting my point (which makes it a valid, logical and understable point...I guess), it's pretty much pointless to keep it going.
It will never get into him, it will never pose a problem in his eyes and everything will still perfectly right according to him.

It's best to leave it be, leave him be and move on.

[Blake81]

She's certainly not a favorite of mine myself (a number of the undead types aren't), but what do you find to be lacking/pitiable?

I feel there was quite a bit of a waste of potential; there are plenty of unusual and interesting undead entries (like the Wight and the Lich), so I sorta feel she lacks anything that wasn't done before on some other entry. Not sure if putting this in the best words; I usually like most undead entries, but this one? Hmm.... not quite. (Although that doesn't mean she can't be adapted for a good novel, that is)

[Perentie]

I feel there was quite a bit of a waste of potential; there are plenty of unusual and interesting undead entries (like the Wight and the Lich), so I sorta feel she lacks anything that wasn't done before on some other entry. Not sure if putting this in the best words; I usually like most undead entries, but this one? Hmm.... not quite. (Although that doesn't mean she can't be adapted for a good novel, that is)

True, I especially wish there was something to visually distinguish her from what presumably a undead MGE elf looks like. Perhaps we'll find out later her tear stains are actual markings or something like that. Or perhaps we'll find they originated as elves (as I've been told this is an origin for banshees in Dungeons and Dragons). KC often gives additional info in his "Making of" features.

[Raet]

Well something that I used in my setting which is based on the actual myth is that they are a type of fairy that became classified as undead, but they are more like a corporeal spirit